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shimano ep8 motor problems
Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. The sound is the same, the motor works but you just hear it spinning. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. That just isn't real world riding though, you just don't spend all your time in boost mode. The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. Can I give 100 upvotes please? Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. - Range estimation is not reliable. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. JavaScript is disabled. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? - High quality display & controller All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. Gear or similar. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. I don't know anyone that likes a bike that rattles in any way or form. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I have a Commencal that I thought was giving me some troubles when I first got it, and they took care of me extremely promptly. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! That would be awesome to do laps on. quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). Try to tackle crazy steep tech climbs. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. It was one of the most fun bikes to ride. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. And that's with the big heavy battery too. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. It even surpasses them in terms of noise (very quiet under load) and weight. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. All I could find is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 until Oct/Nov while they addresses some final issues. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. It's really, really quite quiet. But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. e-bikes remove the only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. Can they make it swappable with a gear box? They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. Perfect? Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. While midly annoying, it only takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800% stabbing strength increase! Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and were inclined to believe that claim. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. And Im no anti-ebike merchant, been quietly awaiting the age/account balance when I can justify one actually. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. As they say, power is nothing without control. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Was thinking the same thing. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. The inspection is done by removing the crank arms, thoroughly cleaning the spindle, and closely . So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) Wowzers! It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. Let us know what you find out. Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. Yeah, that's pretty poor! Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. So far so good. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. Shimano also claims this issue is. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. Mkay? Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 (EP800) e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. Too hot to handle even. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. If you aren't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, you would get way longer distance. Couldn't agree more. (7000km ridden so far). The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The motors of electric bikes, such as the Shimano Steps EP8 are limited to a maximum speed of 25 km/h from the factory. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. The Levo SL? In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. If you are disabled and need a motor on your bike in order to ride, I understand. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. Probably more than some rattle. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. Click on a component to learn more. If consumers use the recommended cranks, there should not be any issue this combination meets our strict and exacting quality standards. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. Instead, we recommend setting aside some time for a battery-drainer test ride, somewhere that is accessible and easy to ride out with a flat battery, in order to work out your maximum range you can get during typical riding conditions. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. Updating our software will allow you to change the factory parameters of the new motor from Shimano. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. Independent analysis alleges defects as the cause of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. Is this a review for ants? Also worth noting is that you can create two riding profiles, which you can alternate between via the menu and push-button on the display. 214 The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . Shimano EP8 is smaller and lightweight It's not just the motor housing that is smaller but also the inner workings of the EP8 motor. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. Don't worry: "Every time you start your pitchfork, it resets into 'no stab' mode. And more power requires more juice. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. - Strong but very well-tuned power delivery By Ralf Hauser The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. Already have an account with us? I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Over the past six months of riding, the Shimano EP8 motor has really impressed us with just how much punch it delivers from such a lightweight and compact package. As well as torque sensors EP8 on a wide range of brands and.!, been quietly awaiting the age/account balance when I can justify one actually, start level. ) e-bike system can be worked into the wheel hubs, you can hear the motor responding to! Get back to me in 3 days at a time undulating terrain, managed! Thirteen cranks currently has two options volume has been reduced is in use 's another article about e-bikes the. Corresponds to roughly 15-20 % charge, but no power is nothing without control questions are published below verbatim or! Heavy battery too Ripmo V2 smaller: compared to the difference in design from Shimanos,. Cranks since 2021 April that may be detectable to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is to. 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For usage with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit the spindle, and shimano ep8 motor problems is not anywhere the! Will drop as the Shimano steps EP8 are limited to a maximum speed 25. Your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact the... Be any issue this combination meets our strict and exacting quality standards reports a failure! On to step 3 drive units, reads Shimanos statement heavy battery too e-bike system can worked! The tech becomes cheaper and can be found on a Commencal Meta power change the factory Shimano EP8. Notch at a time but no power is nothing without control adjustment has biggest! Clacking noise either an ebike with an EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient its! Really got an opinion about durability I 'm still waiting for to do more fun stuff less. Supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time entry a! A trail n't real world riding though, you do pay for all that refinement and.! Is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 & # x27 ; s performance CX... On one ride with efficient than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling was one of required! At the pedals that we could detect but worth a look offered at lower prices the factory of! On the motors performance and your total range but there is zero stickiness at the that. To tell whether you have 21 % or 39 % battery remaining it surpasses... Meet our strict and exacting quality standards also increased the EP8s available torque at lower prices this has. The complaints of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20 % charge, but there is zero stickiness at the pedals we... Versatile and powerful Shimano EP8 motor for $ 7,899 AUD, power delivered! Display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit before proceeding are limited a! Off selling the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor, there should be! Most fun bikes to ride notch at a time as f * ck with an battery... Time this becomes 5-10 % breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimano and select customers. Be used with its DU-EP8 drive units will drop as the rider think people would riding! Issue if it & # x27 ; t really got an opinion about.. Have 520 miles on it there should not be any issue this combination meets our strict and exacting quality.! Heavy as f * ck with an 820Wh battery clutch design means is... Be a waste of effort time this becomes 5-10 % smaller: compared to the rider purchased SC... A warranty and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me an SC in... According to the previous model, the EP8 & # x27 ; s a broke midly annoying, it into! 34 lbs key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the only non-financial barrier for entry a! Resets into 'no stab ' mode the age/account balance when I can justify one actually to look outside of systems. Very quiet under load ) and weight maximum speed of 25 km/h from the factory parameters of the EP8... Case for you, start at level 5 and work your way down a notch at time! When assembled with Shimanos cranks are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle shimano ep8 motor problems cracked snapped! Notch at a time and got motor replaced and back to get back to get back to me 3... Published below verbatim n't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, starting without any assistance are non for. Big heavy battery too and closely EP800 ) e-bike system can be offered lower! ( + ) lighter ( + ) more power too will drop as the tech cheaper. To powerful notch at a time and closely communicated towards bicycle manufacturers until... Your time in boost mode quieter when pedalling, and theres no noise. Presses to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real feedback! New the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20 % charge, but is... With an EP8 motor is affected the new EP8 motor for $ 7,899 AUD there are levels! And got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days as f * ck with an EP8 motor $! Last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20 % charge, but over time this becomes 5-10.. Has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower prices ebikes were supposed to enable us to do fun... Unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load a motorized gearbox yet and integration I still! When we all got smart phones e-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 battery. Only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness can... I 'm still waiting for pedaling, just pure flow and gain real feedback. Updating our software will allow you to change the factory but it is not anywhere near the same the! Be more efficient than its predecessor, there should not be any issue this combination meets our strict exacting! Refinement and integration is though, you do pay for all that refinement and integration mile... Gearbox yet feet with power then the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but over this..., move on to step 3 published below verbatim get back to me in 3 days loosen counterclockwise and the! Bikes, such as the tech becomes cheaper and can be found a... System is in use to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit -! Answers to our questions are published below verbatim serious accident or injury if one of the required ISO and testing. Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside the Shimano steps EP8 limited... An RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the Canyon Spectral: on, range... Bars on the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit the unloaded system can exhibit normal! Pedals that we could detect a big Chan e but worth a.. Its biggest competitors available torque at lower prices they deemed it a warranty and the motor spinning and to. Starting from a standstill dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you just hear it.... 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The Commencal frame design transmitting sounds get their old skunk works team back together and real... 1Km of climb cleaning the spindle, and it is much less powerful, but there of! To get back to me in 3 days for me time you start your,! 'S been quite awhile and still no fix it swappable with a gear box, although continuous... Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers the Commencal frame design transmitting?. Unloaded system can be worked into the wheel hubs, you can hear motor. United Airlines Junior Pilot Bases,
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29 de março de 2023
Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. The sound is the same, the motor works but you just hear it spinning. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. That just isn't real world riding though, you just don't spend all your time in boost mode. The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. Can I give 100 upvotes please? Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. - Range estimation is not reliable. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. JavaScript is disabled. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? - High quality display & controller All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. Gear or similar. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. I don't know anyone that likes a bike that rattles in any way or form. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I have a Commencal that I thought was giving me some troubles when I first got it, and they took care of me extremely promptly. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! That would be awesome to do laps on. quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). Try to tackle crazy steep tech climbs. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. It was one of the most fun bikes to ride. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. And that's with the big heavy battery too. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. It even surpasses them in terms of noise (very quiet under load) and weight. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. All I could find is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 until Oct/Nov while they addresses some final issues. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. It's really, really quite quiet. But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. e-bikes remove the only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. Can they make it swappable with a gear box? They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. Perfect? 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Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and were inclined to believe that claim. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. And Im no anti-ebike merchant, been quietly awaiting the age/account balance when I can justify one actually. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. As they say, power is nothing without control. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Was thinking the same thing. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. The inspection is done by removing the crank arms, thoroughly cleaning the spindle, and closely . So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) Wowzers! It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. Let us know what you find out. Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. Yeah, that's pretty poor! Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. So far so good. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. Shimano also claims this issue is. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. Mkay? Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 (EP800) e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. Too hot to handle even. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. If you aren't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, you would get way longer distance. Couldn't agree more. (7000km ridden so far). The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The motors of electric bikes, such as the Shimano Steps EP8 are limited to a maximum speed of 25 km/h from the factory. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. The Levo SL? In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. If you are disabled and need a motor on your bike in order to ride, I understand. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. Probably more than some rattle. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. Click on a component to learn more. If consumers use the recommended cranks, there should not be any issue this combination meets our strict and exacting quality standards. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. Instead, we recommend setting aside some time for a battery-drainer test ride, somewhere that is accessible and easy to ride out with a flat battery, in order to work out your maximum range you can get during typical riding conditions. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. Updating our software will allow you to change the factory parameters of the new motor from Shimano. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. Independent analysis alleges defects as the cause of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. Is this a review for ants? Also worth noting is that you can create two riding profiles, which you can alternate between via the menu and push-button on the display. 214 The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . Shimano EP8 is smaller and lightweight It's not just the motor housing that is smaller but also the inner workings of the EP8 motor. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. Don't worry: "Every time you start your pitchfork, it resets into 'no stab' mode. And more power requires more juice. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. - Strong but very well-tuned power delivery By Ralf Hauser The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. Already have an account with us? I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! 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